Curse

Chicken Ftw · Oct 28, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Chicken no offense but imo did you select your username by finding which animal had the closest crainial capacity as you?

"No offense" -insert trolling here- ... Make up your mind kiddo. Either you mean offense or you don't. It's cranial, by the way. Perhaps you should use words you're more familiar with, instead of trying to sound more intelligent than you are.

My reasoning behind my name is of no consequence to you, so I think I'll keep it to myself.

Is there anyone for changing this "nerf" back to the way it was who doesn't resort to random flaming to try (and fail) get their point across?

Quozz · Oct 28, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

I agree with the original OP that this update has taken some of the "fun" out of the PVE game. I have played quite a bit since the update to see how things were working and this is what I came away with:

Went to do some quests in the jade sea with my elementalist and a guildie took her SS necro. The rest of the party was henchies. This was the easiest time I have ever had fighting in this area of the game world. The enemy AI fixated on the warrior henchies to the exclusion of anyone else. They would only occasionally flee from AOE but only a few steps and then would go right back into it. Frankly it was so dull it was like watching grass grow. I didn't have to kite, use any kind of defensive or self heal skills, or really think at all. At the end of the quests we both said the same thing.... that was wayyyyyyy to easy.

Next we tried a run from Warcamp to Granite. I played a healing monk and she played her axe warrior. Once again the bad guys fixated on her and the henchie warrior with the exception that they would now flee from her at the slightest amount of damage inflicted. We ended up chasing bad guys all over the place to kill them. The really dumb thing was that no matter how close I got to any of the enemies they never bothered me. They didn't interrupt me, hex me, attack me, etc... We even purposely over aggroed on one occasion and it was a piece of cake to fight through since I only had the warriors to heal and didn't have to worry about kiting anything.

There is no doubt the AI is totally screwed up right now. This can't be what Anets intent was and its just a bug they need to work out. The AI behavior has turned them all into running around like chickens with their heads cut off. At the start of a battle I have seen the enemy forces go through my warriors like they are going to come after me, only to have them do a 360 and run back to attack the warriors. I have stood in range of Naga archers and not have them even attempt to hit me with concussion shot or any other interrupt for that matter (prior to this update they were very effective at interrupting me if I was not careful).

For all those saying just adapt, my question is "Adapt to what?". I have to dumb myself down to create any kind of challenge? Sorry but this AI update is absolutely horrible from the standpoint of PVE challenge. Really poor decision on Anets part to release this kind of update in addition to a new chapter and the halloween stuff. How anyone sane could have tested this prior to release and said it was okay is beyond me.

I'm not even going to bother installing Nightfall until the AI and that stupid self centering camera are fixed.

The Pointless · Oct 28, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

For all those saying just adapt, my question is "Adapt to what?". I have to dumb myself down to create any kind of challenge?

Since when was adjusting a build for the current situation associated with dumbing down? Adapt to whatever you're up against! Cowards? Snare them and top them! Rampant Eles? Elemental Resistance ftw.

[EDIT] No idea WHY I put Physical in the first place...

Bastian · Oct 28, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

How does mobs acting like people would and not rolling over and dying take away content?

Since when is r5 impressive, when there's r9 iway pugs? Guild rank 400? Took a PvE guild to rank 139 with 8 warriors once. None of these accomplishments prove that you know much of anything, much less how to adapt. How has ANet shit on you? They've improved the game imo. I've spent time in GW since July 2005, and I like these changes. I'm tired of being able to steamroll every mob in the game without any reaction from them. Apparently you liked it, so you're leaving. Well, have fun in your new, carebear-friendly game of choice.

Did I say that my accomplishments were impressive - No. I did use them as a means to show you that I have and do PvP - which clearly you attacked me on earlier.

My carebear frienly game of choice, btw is going to be The Saga of Ryzom - much better community, content, and a storyline that keeps on going and going...

But I guess you're happy with running from point A to B to C back to A - collect reward, rinse repeat. The new AI isn't any harder or more challenging - or more lifelike. Its more annoying, easier, unrealistic, and boring. But, I guess you can't go back on your words now, so i don't expect you to.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 28, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Is there anyone for changing this "nerf" back to the way it was who doesn't resort to random flaming to try (and fail) get their point across?

Well it makes sense that the people who refuse to adapt or think are also the ones who can't make an argument so they resort to petty insults and flaming.

Seriously though, I've been playing for about two days now and STILL don't see what the huge fuss is about. The gameplay is just fine and I'm going along at a rate that's pretty fast. The AI cant possibly be hindering anyone from completing missions or normal gameplay.

lyra_song · Oct 28, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Lyra, that is the problem. This game is stagnant, and as far as I can see it will remain that way; Anet has no plans to stray from the path of least resistance.

Um....yes the game gets stagnant.

Thats why things get changed around..........

Theres no way to give you a completely new game. All they can do is add stuff and tweak things a bit to make it FEEL different.

And i think they do an excellent job because lots of people complain how its completely different now ;P

Dont get me wrong.

I think the AI's currrent setting is ANNOYING.

Try being a warrior...chasing stuff sucks.

But...it does make me use different skills i dont normally use in PVE like Cripshot

Quozz · Oct 28, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pointless

Since when was adjusting a build for the current situation associated with dumbing down? Adapt to whatever you're up against! Cowards? Snare them and top them! Rampant Eles? Elemental Resistance ftw.

[EDIT] No idea WHY I put Physical in the first place...

Obviously you didn't get my point. I don't have to change any build to get through this new moronic AI. In fact I can go with only 4 or 5 skills on my bar and be just as effective. Snare? Why bother. Just ignore them switch targets and they come back to you. By the way, with only henchie warriors they don't flee so no snares needed. They sit in a nice bunch and get nuked to oblivion. Next time try reading my entire post with some comprehension before responding.

ValaOfTheFens · Oct 28, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I hate chasing monster around. Especially when I have a bunch of minions around and they're standing in front of me. *lol* You just have to test a few strategies. With my N/Me if there's more than 4 monsters I crowd them in with Chaos Storm or just kill one and makes some minions(they always attack minions first instead of henchies or other players) and then cast Shadow of Fear while with my A/W I either Cripple the baddie or make myself faster with Sprint. Use the strengthes of both your professions. I've found that having one melee profession and one ranged profession is a great way to deal with different monster situations. W/Mo is a good example.

lacasner · Oct 28, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Theres no way to give you a completely new game. All they can do is add stuff and tweak things a bit to make it FEEL different.

And i think they do an excellent job because lots of people complain how its completely different now ;P

Lyra lyra, im dissapointed in you

Are you really going to say that in this game its impossible to add new content? That all they can do is change it around to give the weakminded a sense of progression and improvement?

Well, I for sure as hell didn't spend 800 hours of playing to believe that, but I do belive that Anet did take the path of least resistance, as you know.

Also, these people that are complaining are only looking the obvious changes a toddler could decipher. Really, if Anet did change this game the effects would be much more widespread.

ElinoraNeSangre · Oct 28, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

It's likely perspective. I mostly play SS so I'm a little nervous about the changes, but guildwars.com clearly stated that monsters *no longer run from AoE if they are in good health* and don't cluster up so much so SS won't smack them as bad. I'm consistantly missing something in regards to monsters in good health not running from AoE = bad, but maybe the point is that the update didn't do what it was intended to do. If this is the case, post in a bug report thread; ANet will be more likely to listen to that than a rant thread. Or post a thread with the title "Enemies running away from melee combat: bug?" or something.

I think that asking that monsters not run away when you fight is a reasonable request - frankly, if I go into an area, an enemy enters my aggro, and they attack me, I expect them to fight and stay there and try to kill me, too, not run away. That's a fair point. Saying that the fighters can't hold aggro any more, fair point. These are actionable things, these are solid examples.

But the random "waah this sucks I'm not having fun", well, I think complaining is probably nerfing at least a few people's fun. Legit bug reports, letting ANet know what's working and what's not, and good solid feedback about gameplay, these are good things. It's all in how you present it.

Re: fun. The last two days, I've had to try really hard to get my husband to stop playing Nightfall before 5am because he's so happy smacking stuff with his E/N. He loves that he gets points for just killing stuff all over (he loves just running around and smacking stuff). I've never had this much trouble getting my husband away from Guild Wars. He's now an addict as bad as I am.

Lastly, agree to disagree, kids.

Gigashadow · Oct 28, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I'm having a lot of fun with the pve content in Nightfall.

Why are pve players so opposed to increases in difficulty? PvE in this game is so easy it could have been made by Fisher Price.

around · Oct 28, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Bull's Charge 4tw.

Seriously, people might have to THINK to play PvE, and we know that's not a good thing, right? I mean, they might have to exercise their cranium, which hasn't been used ever since they typed in "effective [insert class here] build" in Google.

Matsumi · Oct 28, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Still more fussing I see. Well, I went out and did some quests and missions last night, and I really didn't see any problems. I went out before attacking a mob, set the flag to let henches go into formation, then proceeded to attack. The monsters also have their own formation when attacking as well, something I kind of liked for a change. The melee fighters focused on the warriors, while the casters stood back. Occasionally I would get one to run, but then switched targets to keep pressure on the other melee, he came back, and I targeted him, finishing him off. Perhaps if there was a healer in the mob he would have been healed when he ran, but there was none.

The point I'm trying to make is that I no longer just c+space my way through things, or just bring a load of skills that say DAMAGE, and expect to come out winning. I actually have to pay attention to their formation, and if I get a runner, I don't chase them. If I wanted to, I could of brought a snare or cripple and finished him off before he ran. Not necessary though since he just came running back. They're still predictable, but not as predictable, which is a lot more fun for me. And I'm not just kissing ass, or whatever it is you complainers like to come up with, the game is actually more interesting to me now. Instead of mind numbingly killing things with damage buttons, I start to think that other skills like snares and crippling skills on my assassin actually have a purpose in PvE, not just PvP. Maybe now more people will stop forming brute force groups to accomplish things, ignoring some of the other classes that could help them get the job done better.

Just some thoughts.

Witchblade · Oct 28, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

/skipped the pages

imo, fun was nerfed 1 year ago

Age · Oct 28, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

I think it was nerfed when protective bond got it and the AoE nerf came in so much for it.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 28, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Ok I do realize that it's all about perspective too. Some people find mindlessly pressing buttons without any thought to kill mass numbers of monsters to be fun. Others find that having to use some strategy and some adapting to the situation and challenge to be fun.

Which type of player are you?

lyra_song · Oct 28, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Lyra lyra, im dissapointed in you

Are you really going to say that in this game its impossible to add new content? That all they can do is change it around to give the weakminded a sense of progression and improvement?

Well, I for sure as hell didn't spend 800 hours of playing to believe that, but I do belive that Anet did take the path of least resistance, as you know.

Also, these people that are complaining are only looking the obvious changes a toddler could decipher. Really, if Anet did change this game the effects would be much more widespread.

See heres the thing. Theres content. Then theres features.

Guild Wars makes a distinction of each being that:

Content you pay for.
Features you dont.

Now. Anet double talk will sometimes take something thats content and make it a feature later on, so we can disregard those.

Case example: Storage Materials Tab.

Changes to the game's engine/ui/AI/graphics engine/skills etc. These are considered Features.

Everyone gets these for free.

New maps, new monsters, new weapons, new skills,professions, PVP modes, storyline, quests, missions.

These are considered content and are usually not free. These usually involve buying a new access key to gain this content (which, you downloaded even if you dont own the game as part of the updates)

Now....

lacasner:

Corrrect me if im wrong. You are saying that the new AI changes and AOE changes are NOT part of the expansion.

This is correct.

However i think you are wrong to say that the game is not being expanded.

The new micromanagement feature with heroes, armor customization, weapon customization and team control through waypoints and map flags.

This is NOT a tweak. Its not just changing things around. Its a radical departure and pushes the game into a strategy game's direction.

This is HARDLY taking the easy route. These updates are massive and every chapter from this point on will incorporate this new type of gameplay.

HOW COME NO ONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT IT?

Witchblade · Oct 28, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

my type? hmmm lemme think about that ...

well the main thing is that i hate when i ve no freedom, means i wanna do what i want in a game when i wanna do it...

now it has become the one and only game where i always have the feeling that i m playing with a gun pointed on me and a guy saying "stop that u dumb fu**, u are not supposed to do this all by yerself, leave and come back with 7 other ppl or we ll remove that from yer screen and btw STOP putting gold in that stash or u ll regret it"

@Lyra: i wish that those crap AI, nerf and brand new useless changes were only applied to ppl buying NF and further chapters... leaving ppl who got only Core and/or Factions with what they have, unchanged

lyra_song · Oct 28, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

@Lyra: i wish that those crap AI, nerf and brand new useless changes were only applied to ppl buying NF and further chapters... leaving ppl who got only Core and/or Factions with what they have, unchanged

why? that would involve splitting up servers. which would mean more money and an even less intergrated gaming universe. that just doesnt make much sense.

The game will change, it will keep changing. It will gain new fans. It will lose old ones. They add things, they take things out.

This is the only real thing we have to deal with.

Learn to deal with this reality first.

Then you'll see that the AI thing is trivial.

Loviatar · Oct 28, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

here is the general official policy

Quote:

The topic is farming. Players have frequently asked about ArenaNet's philosophy on item and gold farming, and they've also been curious about our stance on the sale of Guild Wars items for real-world cash. Mike O'Brien, head of the Design Team, has provided us with some answers to this timely question.

Quote:

Players often wonder why we allow prices to float on the traders, and this is fundamentally the reason. Traders are not vendors; they don’t offer an unlimited supply of rare items. They’re just there to facilitate trade between buyers and sellers. If the traders quote buy and sell prices that are outside the range of what players think the true value of an item is, then players simply stop using the traders and switch back to using chat to find trading partners. Of course, for any given type of rare item, we could theoretically stop treating it as a rare item and instead put an unlimited quantity on NPC vendors for sale at a fixed price. But this tends not to be a good idea for two reasons. First, player perception of the value of items tends to change over time; if the vendor sale price can’t adapt, then there will be times when the item seems undervalued and times when it seems too expensive and no one will buy it. As specific character builds go in and out of favor, the items that support those builds can experience wide swings in their perceived value. Second, Guild Wars will always have a player-driven economy because the game uses randomly generated stats on weapons and equipment. Those items can't effectively be sold by vendors, and the more we pull other types of items out of the player-driven economy by placing them on vendors and giving them fixed prices, the more we focus all price swings and inflationary pressures on the few remaining items that players still bid for, potentially pushing their prices far out of the reach of normal players.

Because Guild Wars does make extensive use of a player-driven economy, we at ArenaNet have a responsibility to manage the economy, and we take that responsibility seriously. You might ask: what exactly is our responsibility? Is it to keep prices within a certain range? Is it to maintain price stability? We think that, expressed in its most general terms, our responsibility is to keep the distribution of wealth as fair as possible, so that normal players can afford to bid for items in a player-driven economy. We need to avoid situations where a small subset of players can earn orders of magnitude more gold than the average player, thus driving up prices of rare items to a level where normal players could never hope to afford them.

There are three ways that certain players earn more gold than the average. The first and most obvious way is that, because everyone plays the game differently, some players are able to find unusually profitable areas to hunt in, or tricky strategies for killing a lot of monsters quickly. The search for the most effective way to play can be a fun part of the game for everyone -- we all like to see how well our characters can do, and whether we can tweak our characters to be better than they were previously -- and so we at ArenaNet don’t consider this a problem unless it’s extreme. Although a very knowledgeable or tricky player may be able to earn gold twice as fast as the average, this tends not to create a significant problem, because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them. But sometimes differences in the distribution of wealth can be extreme; a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem, and we need to adjust the game to bring wealth distribution back into normal ranges. We constantly monitor the game, so we know when a certain place or technique is being heavily exploited. When an issue like this becomes too severe, we make tweaks as necessary to bring things back in line.